Apostolic Traditions Regarding Giving: (Part One)

I am discovering that traditions of men are almost always contrary to apostolic traditions! Traditionally we have been taught that, in Christian ministry, giving should always flow from a large group of people to a small group of people and that the needs of the small group are to be met differently than are the needs of the large group. In this post, I simply ask you to consider some questions I’ve been asking myself as I’ve been seeking answers in the scriptures.  I hope this will spark your interest in searching the scriptures for your own answers and then hopefully we can discuss what we have discovered in future posts!

How are the needs of elders/overseers/pastors to be met? (Acts 20:28-35)

Do apostles, prophets, evangelists or teachers have a right for their needs to be met in a different manner than those of local elders/overseers/pastors?  Yes/No

If so, what scriptures set forth such a right?

If not, what scriptures teach the wisdom of the needs of both being met in the same ways? (Acts 20:33-35; II Thess.3:6-15)

Which apostles demanded or used such rights?  (Acts 6:2,4;  I Cor.9:4-6,12)

Which apostles did not demand or use such rights?  (Acts 20:33-35; I Cor.4:9-17;  I Cor.9:6,12,15,18;  II Cor.11:7-9; II Cor.12:12-19; I Thess.2:1-9; 4:9-12; II Thess.3:6-15)

Are there any good reasons to surrender such rights and not demand them?  (I Cor.9:12,15-18)

Did any apostle, whose needs were met differently than those of elders, teach others to follow his own example? Yes/No

Are apostles. prophets, evangelists, pastors or teachers to be hired, paid and even fired by other believers? Yes/No

If so, what scriptures would teach these things?

If not, who calls, appoints, sends and rewards apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers? (Matthew 10:16; 23;34; John 20:21; Acts 20:28-35; I Peter 5:1-4)

Who gave such men to the Body?  (Ephesians 4:10,11) Who is then responsible to see that they receive their hire or reward for their labour?  (Matthew 16:27; 20:1-16; I Cor.3:18; I Tim.5:18; Rev.22:12)

Are the financial and material needs of widows, orphans, the weak, the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned and the poor to be supplied by believers?  Yes/No

If not, what scriptures teach this?

If so, what scriptures teach this? How and by whom are such to be supported? (Matt.25:34-46; Acts 6:1-6; 11:27-30; 20:35; Rom.15:25,26; I Cor.16:1,2;  II Cor.8:13-15; 9:12; Gal.2:9,10;  Eph.4:28; I Tim.5:3-15)

 For what reason should some such not be given anything? (II Thess.3:10-15; I Tim.5:9-14)

What does scripture teach us…

- about “saving” for the future? (Matt.6:19,20;  10:7-12; Luke 10:1-8; I Cor.16:1-3; II Cor.3:13-15)

- about saving for known needs (i.e. storing crops for use in the winter when they won’t grow, for meeting the current known needs of one’s own children, elderly or widowed parents.)  (Prov.6:6-11; II Cor.12:14; I Tim.5:3-16)

-about saving for unknown needs (“for a rainy day”, for possible “emergencies” or catastrophes, for security in old age, for children’s education etc.)

“Saving” is not mentioned in scripture. But the Lord Jesus and the apostles did instruct us regarding “laying up”. Is “laying up” an equivalent to “saving”?  How is “laying up” the same as or different from “saving”?

Is fundraising (the act or occupation of asking, pleading, appealing or making known needs for funds) for ministry scripturally justified? Yes/No    If so, what scriptures teach us …

- how to do it? Acts 11:27-30; Phil.4:6

- to whom such appeals should be made? Matt.7:2,7,8,11,12;  Acts 11:27-30; Phil.4:6

- by whom such appeals should be made? Acts 11:27-3                                                                                                                         - the reasons for generous response to such appeals? Luke 6:28-38; II Cor.9:6;  Gal.6:7-10.

The reason why the promise of Phil.4:19 was made to  saints at Philippi and not to others is found in Phil.4:14-16! This is entirely in keeping with the teachings of Luke 6:28-38, II Cor.9:6 and Gal.6:7-10!

 - the reasons for which some such appeals should be rejected? Prov.1:22-33; II Thess.3:10

What scriptural commands teach how the needs of the following are to be met:

  -apostles?  -prophets?  -evangelists?  -pastors/elders/overseers?  -teachers?  -the poor?  -the weak?

  -widows?  -orphans?  -saints/believers?  All of the above are instructed by Matt.6:3,4 & 19,20;  Matt.7:2,7,8,11,12;  Luke 6:30,31,38; Acts 20:33-35;

What scriptural examples show (right or wrong) how the needs of the following have been met?

  -apostles?  -prophets?  -evangelists?  -pastors/elders/overseers?  -teachers?  -the poor?  -the weak?

  -widows?  -orphans?  -saints/believers?

Does any historical event or practice recorded in scripture establish an apostolic tradition which is incumbent on believers today, or must such responsibilities be established by an apostolic command?

What kinds of people are scripturally entitled to receive financial assistance? Poor saints Romans 15:25-27; those who preach the Gospel I Cor.9:9-14; those who teach Galatians 6:6;  faithful widows I Tim.5:3-14; elders who labour in the word and doctrine  I Tim.5:17,18

What apostolic traditions (commands of the Lord through the apostles) give us guidance in these matters? (the texts immediately above)

Who serves the Lord? Who are “the servants of the Lord”? (Col.1:1,2 with 3:24;  Romans 12:1,11)

Who is to “live of the Gospel”?  Who are those who “preach the Gospel”? (Evangelists?, Sunday school teachers?, parents who teach their children their need of a Saviour? Christians who are faithful witnesses to co-workers etc?)

What does “living of the Gospel” mean?  Does it mean -charging for preaching? - receiving a salary or wage for preaching?  - being hired to preach? - looking for one’s reward from the hand of the One who appointed the preacher? - something else?   If so, what does it mean?

What does the negative command “muzzle not the ox that treadeth out the corn” mean for us? 

-Does it mean positive commands such as: “Pay the apostle.” -“Pay those who preach the Gospel.” or “Pay the elders who labour in the word and doctrine” ?  If so, how are they to be paid, how much and by whom? 

Or does a negative command teach us there is something we are NOT to do?  If so, what are we NOT to do regarding apostles, those who preach the Gospel, or elders who labour in the Word and doctrine?  What does this mean in practical ways….how will this affect our care for such? 

   -When one literally muzzles an ox, what does he do and why does he do it?

   -When a believer or an ekklesia “muzzles” an apostle, a Gospel preacher, a teacher or an elder who labours in the word and doctrine? What do they do? Why do they do it?

Specifically, what are we NOT to do in this matter regarding apostles, Gospel preachers, teachers or elders?

Have you been surprised by any of the answers you have discovered in the scriptures? Feel free to share and comment on whatever you have learned in this regard in the "comments" section below or in an email to me at bwood4d@gmail.com

Greater Works?

My good friend, Lem, has made some great comments and asked some good questions lately. The following comment of his was noted in my last post but because the post was already too long I wanted to address this separately.

Lem wrote: “When I look at the verse in John 14:12, I’m led to interpret Mark 16:16-18 in the same light. “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.”   To me, greater works means more signs and miracles than what Jesus did.”

Lem, are you sure that when the Lord Jesus spoke these words that He meant that believers would do more signs and wonders than what He did?

Consider that he made the lame to walk, gave sight to the blind, healed lepers, straightened crooked backs, restored withered hands, gave hearing and speech to the deaf and the dumb, mended an ear which had been sliced off with a sword, cast out evils spirits, raised people up from the dead, and even performed such miracles when the sick people were not even in his presence or even in the same town!  He walked on water,  stilled storms and the waves of the sea, withered up a fig tree simply by his word, turned water into wine. But not only did the Lord Jesus not “advertise” his own miracles, he often told others not to tell about them! And yet His fame was spread far and wide by those who observed and knew what He had done!

In addition, John 20:30 tells us that He did many other signs in the presence of his disciples which are not written in the scriptures!  So it is clear that none of the apostles, no one among the first century Christians and no one in our own day has ever come close to the miracles and signs which the Lord Jesus did! So if the Lord Jesus was promising that those who believed on Him would do more signs and wonders than He did,  that promise has certainly not been kept!!!

So it is clear that the Lord Jesus was not talking about miracles, signs or wonders for which He became famous and which proved that He truly was the Son of God. That was the very reason why John’s Gospel was written… “But these (signs) are written that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and that believing ye might have life through His name.” (John 20:31)

Think about this…. Since the signs/miracles/wonders which Jesus did were the proof that He truly was the Son of God and that people could have life by believing in Him….what would be proved if someone came on the scene doing more signs, miracles or wonders than Jesus did???  Would it not prove that they also would be the Christ and that life could be had by believing in them???

Can you see where this interpretation would inevitably lead us if it were true? It obviously is not!

But if you have a Strong’s Concordance or any Online Bible program you will notice that the word which the Lord Jesus used in this statement for “works” was NOT any of the words he used for “signs”, “miracles”, “wonders” etc!  It was a very common word “ERGON” which is translated as “work”, “deeds” or “labor”.  It’s the Greek word from which our word “ergonomics” is derived. 

We are certainly not called to do greater signs, miracles and wonders than the Lord Jesus did, so how could “work” that we do be “greater” than the works He did?  Let me suggest that the greatness is not in visible display of physical power but rather 

(1) in the importance of the effect of the work and

(2) in the permanence of the work.

Of all the miracles and healings which Jesus did during His earthly ministry…how important were they and how long did their effect last?  All whom he healed and even those whom he raised from the dead eventually died!  So the importance of those signs was only temporal.

But the work (ergon) which New Covenant believers (i.e. since Calvary) are called to do is far greater in its importance and in its permanence than the signs and wonders which the Lord Jesus did!  The work to which we are called transforms lives (vs. simply healing bodies) and these changes are permanent and not just temporary!

Notice how the apostle Paul describes this work (ergon) in his first epistle to the Corinthians:

1 Corinthians 9:1)  Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?  In chapter 5, Paul had described the nature of his work in the Corinthian believers:

1 Corinthians 6:9)  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10)  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11)  And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. He also emphasizes that other believers are also involved in the same work (i.e. seeing lives transformed for eternity!

1 Corinthians 16:10)  Now if Timotheus come, see that he may be with you without fear: for he worketh the work of the Lord, as I also do.

2 Timothy 4:5)  But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work (ergon) of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

So, in summary, the “greater works” of which the Lord Jesus spoke in John 14:12 could not be more signs and wonders or greater signs and wonders than the Lord Jesus did for those were the evidence that He gave that he truly was the Son of God.

He did not say that believers would do “greater signs, wonders or miracles” than He did but rather “greater works” (ergon).

These works (transformed lives) are greater in effect and in permanence than any temporal signs or wonders.

Thus churches which desire to be biblical in their practices will be glad whenever God gives gifts and bestows signs and wonders according to His own will, but they will emphasize and be eager to be involved in the work (ergon) of the Lord which radically transforms lives for eternity!

Should Biblical Churches Be Marked By Signs & Wonders? (Part Two)

In response to my post a few days ago, “Should  Biblical Churches Be Marked By Signs & Wonders?”, my good friend Lem has commented again as follows (my responses are in blue.)

Since you use the absence of the word “ALL” to interpret “them” in the verses of Mark 16:16-18, shall we do the same thing for hundreds of other bible verses that do not contain the word “ALL” in it?  If we first just look at the three verses mentioned in Mark.

Mark 16:15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

If I were to apply the same method of interpretation to verse 15, I might be tempted to think that not ALL people should go into the world and preach the gospel, for the verse did not say: “And he said unto ALL of them”  OR “And he said unto them ALL” OR“ Go ye ALL into the world” OR “Go ALL of ye into the world”

If I were to apply it to verses 16 and 17, I would be tempted to interpret that Jesus did not use the word “Whosover” and used the word “He” (in verse 15) instead, AND therefore since “He” is more singular than “them” (plural in verse 17),  I would conclude that not ALL that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, and not ALL that believeth NOT shall be damned. 

Why should the absence of ALL in verse 17 cause us to reduce the meaning of the word “them” to “not ALL”.  If we were to use the same rule of thumb to interpret all the other verses in the bible with the word “them”, I think we’d have some serious troubles.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (John 1:12)

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent (John 6:29)

While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them. (John 12:36)

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; (John 17:20)

Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. (1 (Corinthians 14:22)

In all the verses above, I have always interpreted (and I’m pretty sure anyone you ask would do so to) the word “them” to mean “all inclusive”.

When I look at the verse in John 14:12, I’m led to interpret Mark 16:16-18 in the same light. “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.”            To me, greater works means more signs and miracles than what Jesus did.   (Are you sure this is what Jesus had in mind when He spoke these words, Lem?  To do this one justice, I’ll address this in another post.)In this verse, it clearly says “He that believeth”.  It is no different in meaning when this phrase is used in other verses such as:

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.  (Mark 16:16)

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)

Ok…so you’re probably wondering about what I think about God’s designation of functions and spiritual gifts in the church as outlined in 1 Corinthians 12. Yes, I agree that these verses would put those verses in Mark and John in perspective.

Hi Lem,  It is primarily because of I Cor.12 which teaches us clearly that not all believers have the gifts of tongues or healing etc that I believe we are to understand Mark 16 as I suggested earlier. But that is not the only reason. Other reasons for this are as follows:

(1) God cannot lie. (Titus 1:2)  Mark 16:17&18 is clearly a promise of God and, as I mentioned in my last post, God has kept every aspect of that promise.  However if we understand it to mean that He promised that all of those signs would follow every believer, then God is clearly a liar since all of those signs have clearly not followed every believer!  But since we know that God cannot lie, we know that to understand the text in that way is wrong!

(2)Mark 16:17,18 is not a conditional promise, i.e. it is not conditioned on any obedience or performance of believers.  If, for example, Jesus had said, “These signs shall follow them that believe who pray fervently enough and fast regularly enough”,  then we could conclude that if those signs don’t follow me then I’m just not praying fervently enough or fasting regularly enough!  But the fulfillment of that promise has absolutely nothing to do with us or our performance! It is entirely God’s responsibility!

Lem continued: However, if I was to take each one of these spiritual gifts, I’d have to honestly face the fact that most of what I’ve seen is not from God.

I know I’m getting off the topic, and it may appear like I’m judging. No, I believe, I’m discerning instead. Judging implies condemnation of others. Discernment implies knowing truth from falsehoods.

It’s relatively easy for man to imitate the gifts of teaching, helping people, managing and speaking in tongues, and these you see plenty of. In addition, even many of these are not from God (i.e. false teachers).

But miracles, gifts of healing and prophesying are not easy to imitate. Yes, the devil can do these things. But so can God. What am I saying? I just want to see more of God’s works (the glory of God) and not man’s works. That is all.

The third reason that I believe we must understand Mark 16:17,18 as I mentioned is…

(3) The dispersal of spiritual gifts (including the miraculous sign gifts) is according to the will of God (I Cor.12:11). If you or I were in charge of distributing spiritual gifts, we would likely do it quite differently, but God has not given either of us that responsibility. So rather than expressing our disappointment that God doesn’t do things the way we would like, our responsibility is to exercise faithfully the gift(s) which He has given to us.   Our eyes could be quite critical of the ears because “they just don’t see it!”  But God never intended that ears should see anything!  The ears could be critical of the eyes because “they just won’t listen!” But God never intended that eyes should hear anything!

But as the ears listen and communicate to the head all that they hear and as the eyes watch and report to the head all that they see, and as the nerves sense and report to the head all that they feel, and as all the muscles receive and obey the directions which the head sends to them….the body functions quite well!  So too, in the Body of Christ, we will only function in a healthy manner and edify the body if we fulfill the functions for which we have been uniquely fitted by God and obey the directions which the Head (the Lord Jesus) speaks to each one of us.

It is this that the apostles emphasized and that which I am seeking to emphasize on this blog….that the churches of which we form a part will only function in a biblical manner as we hear, acknowledge and obey apostolic traditions which have been passed down to us from the Head!

As always, your comments and responses are always encouraged and welcomed!

Apostolic Traditions Regarding Giving: (Part One)

I am discovering that traditions of men are almost always contrary to apostolic traditions! Traditionally we have been taught that, in Christian ministry, giving should always flow from a large group of people to a small group of people and that the needs of the small group are to be met differently than are the needs of the large group. In this post, I simply ask you to consider some questions I’ve been asking myself as I’ve been seeking answers in the scriptures.  I hope this will spark your interest in searching the scriptures for your own answers and then hopefully we can discuss what we have discovered in future posts!

How are the needs of elders/overseers/pastors to be met? (Acts 20:28-35)

Do apostles, prophets, evangelists or teachers have a right for their needs to be met in a different manner than those of local elders/overseers/pastors?  Yes/No

If so, what scriptures set forth such a right?

If not, what scriptures teach the wisdom of the needs of both being met in the same ways? (Acts 20:33-35; II Thess.3:6-15)

Which apostles demanded or used such rights?  (Acts 6:2,4;  I Cor.9:4-6,12)

Which apostles did not demand or use such rights?  (Acts 20:33-35; I Cor.4:9-17;  I Cor.9:6,12,15,18;  II Cor.11:7-9; II Cor.12:12-19; I Thess.2:1-9; 4:9-12; II Thess.3:6-15)

Are there any good reasons to surrender such rights and not demand them?  (I Cor.9:12,15-18)

Did any apostle, whose needs were met differently than those of elders, teach others to follow his own example? Yes/No

Are apostles. prophets, evangelists, pastors or teachers to be hired, paid and even fired by other believers? Yes/No

If so, what scriptures would teach these things?

If not, who calls, appoints, sends and rewards apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers? (Matthew 10:16; 23;34; John 20:21; Acts 20:28-35; I Peter 5:1-4)

Who gave such men to the Body?  (Ephesians 4:10,11) Who is then responsible to see that they receive their hire or reward for their labour?  (Matthew 16:27; 20:1-16; I Cor.3:18; I Tim.5:18; Rev.22:12)

Are the financial and material needs of widows, orphans, the weak, the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned and the poor to be supplied by believers?  Yes/No

If not, what scriptures teach this?

If so, what scriptures teach this? How and by whom are such to be supported? (Matt.25:34-46; Acts 6:1-6; 11:27-30; 20:35; Rom.15:25,26; I Cor.16:1,2;  II Cor.8:13-15; 9:12; Gal.2:9,10;  Eph.4:28; I Tim.5:3-15)

 For what reason should some such not be given anything? (II Thess.3:10-15; I Tim.5:9-14)

What does scripture teach us…

- about “saving” for the future? (Matt.6:19,20;  10:7-12; Luke 10:1-8; I Cor.16:1-3; II Cor.3:13-15)

- about saving for known needs (i.e. storing crops for use in the winter when they won’t grow, for meeting the current known needs of one’s own children, elderly or widowed parents.)  (Prov.6:6-11; II Cor.12:14; I Tim.5:3-16)

-about saving for unknown needs (“for a rainy day”, for possible “emergencies” or catastrophes, for security in old age, for children’s education etc.)

“Saving” is not mentioned in scripture. But the Lord Jesus and the apostles did instruct us regarding “laying up”. Is “laying up” an equivalent to “saving”?  How is “laying up” the same as or different from “saving”?

Is fundraising (the act or occupation of asking, pleading, appealing or making known needs for funds) for ministry scripturally justified? Yes/No    If so, what scriptures teach us …

- how to do it? Acts 11:27-30; Phil.4:6

- to whom such appeals should be made? Matt.7:2,7,8,11,12;  Acts 11:27-30; Phil.4:6

- by whom such appeals should be made? Acts 11:27-3                                                                                    - the reasons for generous response to such appeals? Luke 6:28-38; II Cor.9:6;  Gal.6:7-10.

The reason why the promise of Phil.4:19 was made to  saints at Philippi and not to others is found in Phil.4:14-16! This is entirely in keeping with the teachings of Luke 6:28-38, II Cor.9:6 and Gal.6:7-10!

 - the reasons for which some such appeals should be rejected? Prov.1:22-33; II Thess.3:10

What scriptural commands teach how the needs of the following are to be met:

  -apostles?  -prophets?  -evangelists?  -pastors/elders/overseers?  -teachers?  -the poor?  -the weak?

  -widows?  -orphans?  -saints/believers?  All of the above are instructed by Matt.6:3,4 & 19,20;  Matt.7:2,7,8,11,12;  Luke 6:30,31,38; Acts 20:33-35;

What scriptural examples show (right or wrong) how the needs of the following have been met?

  -apostles?  -prophets?  -evangelists?  -pastors/elders/overseers?  -teachers?  -the poor?  -the weak?

  -widows?  -orphans?  -saints/believers?

Does any historical event or practice recorded in scripture establish an apostolic tradition which is incumbent on believers today, or must such responsibilities be established by an apostolic command?

What kinds of people are scripturally entitled to receive financial assistance? Poor saints Romans 15:25-27; those who preach the Gospel I Cor.9:9-14; those who teach Galatians 6:6;  faithful widows                        I Tim.5:3-14; elders who labour in the word and doctrine  I Tim.5:17,18

What apostolic traditions (commands of the Lord through the apostles) give us guidance in these matters? (the texts immediately above)

Who serves the Lord? Who are “the servants of the Lord”? (Col.1:1,2 with 3:24;  Romans 12:1,11)

Who is to “live of the Gospel”?  Who are those who “preach the Gospel”? (Evangelists?, Sunday school teachers?, parents who teach their children their need of a Saviour? Christians who are faithful witnesses to co-workers etc?)

What does “living of the Gospel” mean?  Does it mean -charging for preaching? - receiving a salary or wage for preaching?  - being hired to preach? - looking for one’s reward from the hand of the One who appointed the preacher? - something else?   If so, what does it mean?

What does the negative command “muzzle not the ox that treadeth out the corn” mean for us? 

-Does it mean positive commands such as: “Pay the apostle.” -“Pay those who preach the Gospel.”or -“Pay the elders who labour in the word and doctrine” ?  If so, how are they to be paid, how much and by whom? 

Or does a negative command teach us there is something we are NOT to do?  If so, what are we NOT to do regarding apostles, those who preach the Gospel, or elders who labour in the Word and doctrine?  What does this mean in practical ways….how will this affect our care for such? 

   -When one literally muzzles an ox, what does one do and why?

   -When a believer or an ekklesia “muzzles” an apostle, a Gospel preacher, a teacher or an elder who labours in the word and doctrine? What do they do? Why do they do it?

Specifically, what are we NOT to do in this matter regarding apostles, Gospel preachers, teachers or elders?

As you have considered these questions in light of what scripture says, have you been surprised? Have you had any long-standing ideas challenged by the scriptures?  If so, share your thoughts in the comments below or send me an email at bwood4d@gmail.com

Are tongues speaking, daily conversions and self-sacrifice marks of a Biblical Church?

My last post got way too long before I addressed all of Lem’s comments from a few days ago. So here are the rest of Lem’s remarks (in black) and my response to them (in blue)….

“The book of Acts has many references to speaking in tongues. There are counterfeit ones and genuine ones. In other words, we would truly see God's glory a lot more in such a church.”

Lem, am I right to assume from your comment above that you feel that, if the genuine gift of tongues was being exercised in a church, people would see God’s glory a lot more?   I’m wondering….why would you think that the exercise of the gift of tongues would manifest the glory of the Lord more than the exercise of any other gift of the Spirit?

Consider with me the wide array of spiritual gifts that God has given to the Body of Christ…

In Ephesians 4 we have 5 kinds of people who are given as gifts to the church: (1)apostles or sent ones, (2)prophets, (3)evangelists or Gospel preachers, (4) pastors or shepherds and (5)teachers.

Then in Romans 12 and I Corinthians 12 we have a list of 15 abilities which are given by God for the edifying of the Body of Christ: prophecy, ministry or service, teaching, exhorting, giving, ruling, showing mercy, the word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, faith, healing, working of miracles, discerning of spirits, tongues and interpretation of tongues.

Does the exercise of one gift bring more glory to God than that of any other? Or is it not God’s purpose and desire to be glorified in all that we do all the time (I Cor.10:31)?

The apostle Peter, in 1 Peter 4:10&11 teaches the following about God’s purpose to be glorified in the exercise of every believer’s spiritual gift:  “As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.”

So there are a variety of ways in which God may be robbed of His glory and believers may be robbed of the edification that God intends relative to the exercise of spiritual gifts:

(1)if we acknowledge a distinction between clergy and laity and thus place all the

   responsibility for ministry upon one member, rather than many (Romans 12:3-5)

(2) if we forbid the exercise of a particular spiritual gift (i.e. tongues I Cor.14:39)

(3) if we seek preeminence for ourselves and lack consideration for others (Philippians 2:3-5)

(4)if we are not good stewards of the grace of God and refuse to minister to others what God has entrusted to us. (I Peter 4:10,11)

(5) if we seek to exercise any spiritual gift in violation of specific scriptural instructions given to the apostles through the Spirit of God Himself!  (I Cor.14:23-40)

So, in churches whose practices and traditions are truly biblical, the people of God will vigilantly guard against all of the above. They will seek to practice apostolic traditions which bring glory to God and edify His people!

Lem continued: “The book of Acts also says, numbers of believers were added daily. Can you imagine that..DAILY! Some churches only get one every year.”

You are right, brother, and glorious days those were. Keep in mind that “the church” referred to in Acts 2 was the church in the city of Jerusalem. (It was not a church in a steeple house.) On the Day of Pentecost, that church numbered well over 3,000 people and by Acts 4:4 (likely within a few days or weeks) there were about 5,000 males in the Jerusalem church. So if women were also included it would have easily numbered over 10,000! But none of that adding of believers to the church was done by the efforts of men. Adding believers to the church is always the work of the Lord! It is simply our responsibility to preach the Gospel to those around us, to obey what the Lord has commanded us and to leave the results to Him.  I would also suggest that, in very many cities today, the Lord is daily adding believers to His church! We don’t see the extent of that for we don’t see the extent of Gospel work and testimony that is being done by all the saints in our cities! But may we seek God’s face that we might have a far greater compassion for the lost and be more diligent in bearing testimony for Him!

“Finally there is the self-sacrificing spirit of the people, willing to consecrate their entire lives, life savings and possessions for sole purpose of reaching the poor and needy, and spreading the gospel.

Lem, (while  there is no apostolic traditions that says we must have tongues speaking or tongues speakers in every church and there is no apostolic tradition that says we must be seeing people saved every day) you are absolutely right here… believers and churches which are seeking to obey apostolic traditions are not seeking to amass earthly wealth, possessions or property! Rather they are marked by sacrifice and generous giving to meet the temporal and eternal needs of those around them. BTW, the very common tradition of men known as “saving” is soundly forbidden by the Lord Jesus and the apostles!  The scriptural equivalent of “saving” is described in the words of the Lord Jesus as, “laying up treasures on earth where moth and rust corrupts and where thieves break through and steal”! (See Matthew 6:19-21)

In the words of the apostles it is taught in these words:

1 Corinthians 16:1,2  Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as  God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

2 Corinthians 8:13-15)  For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened: But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality: As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.

2 Corinthians 9:6-9)  But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.

May the Lord search our hearts and may we be willing to abandon any and all traditions of men which are contrary to commands of the Lord Jesus passed down to us by the apostles!

(I’ve been planning for some time to discuss apostolic traditions relative to finances and giving. Consider the above as a brief intro to that subject to be considered more fully in blogs to come.)

Lem concluded his comments with these words:

Otherwise, if none of these fruits exist (signs and wonders, tongues speaking and daily conversions), I'll have a hard time believing that God is with such an ekklesia.

Lemuel”

Dear brother Lem,  whether or not the Lord’s presence is with a particular ekklesia has never been the question!  Where ever there are believers in the Lord Jesus and where ever believers gather, the Lord is with them!  He has guaranteed that by His promise in Hebrews 13:5.  Our discussions here have not been for the purpose of determining whether or not God is present in our gatherings. Rather, the purpose of our discussions has been to consider whether or not our practices are biblical or unbiblical, i.e. are they obedient to apostolic traditions or disobedient to such,  in other words how much do we love the Lord?  The acid test of our love for Him is our answer to this question: “Are we obedient to His commands given to us through the apostles?”  (See John 14:15,21;  15:10; I John 5:2,3 and II John 1:6)

I hope this answers the questions you have posted so far, brother.  And I hope you’ll continue to join in the discussions of these important matters!

Your brother in Christ,  Bruce

Should Biblical Churches Be Marked by Signs & Wonders?

A good friend and brother in the Lord has recently asked some great questions which I’ve tried to answer in previous posts. Lem has just made the following comments and I’m adding my responses to his in blue…..

You've presented the picture of an ekklesia clear enough for me to understand. As I mentioned, I would love to visit one, not so much to see the people, but to see God's work among the people. There is another consideration I wish to address. Since you refer to the Book of Acts for an example of ekklesia, it would therefore follow that if such a church existed today, we would see the fruits of such a church. I'm specifically referring to the miracles (signs and wonders) that "follow them that believe".

Many have told me not to focus on miracles because even the devil can counterfeit them or miracles don't change a person's heart, or some other excuse like that. However if we are to believe the Word of God, then it specifically says that "these signs will follow them that believe" (casting out demons, healing the sick,...etc), not the counterfeit ones, but the genuine ones.

Lem, do you remember that we observed before that apostolic traditions are not established by practices or events among first century Christians but rather by apostolic teachings – i.e. commands of the Lord Jesus to the apostles which have been passed down to us to be obeyed? It is very true that the Lord Jesus gave the apostles a command and a number of promises in Mark 16:15-18. Let’s take a look at His words.  Verse 15 is his command which establishes the tradition which is passed down to us by the apostles…”And he said unto them,  Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.” This was the responsibility of the apostles and is still our responsibility today. Biblical Churches will be actively involved in the proclamation of the Gospel at home and abroad!

Then the next three verses (16-18) are the promises of the Lord Jesus, that is, these are His responsibilities.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.(v.16)  Is the Lord Jesus fulfilling His responsibilities here?  Have  all who have believed to date been saved? Have all those who have not believed been damned?    Yes! This is very clear in John 3:16-18… For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

A number of important questions might well be asked and answered as we consider the Lord Jesus’ promises in verses 17 and 18:

Q. Is He the same faithful God who made the promises in verse 16?  A. Yes! Absolutely!

Q. Did He place any conditions upon these promises?  i.e. Would any unfaithfulness on man’s part nullify or disqualify these promises of His?  A. None whatsoever!         

(Here is the general promise.)And these signs shall follow them that believe;

(Then the following are the five specific signs which He promised would follow them that believe.)  

(1) In my name shall they cast out devils; 

      The Lord kept His promise and on at least 3 occasions evil spirits were cast out by the hands of the apostles who had seen the resurrected Christ and had been personally sent out by Him.  (a) by the hands of the apostles Acts 5:12-16; (b) by the apostle Philip 8:5-8  ; (c) by the hands of the apostle Paul 19:11,12

  

(2) they shall speak with new tongues; (The Lord kept His promise and there are 4 recorded examples of the genuine article and one example of counterfeit tongues.)

       (a) the 120 disciples gathered on the Day of Pentecost, including the apostles Acts 2:4-11 (these were all believers and followers of the Lord Jesus BEFORE that day.)

       (b) The members of Cornelius’ household (new converts who had just been listening to the apostle Peter preach the Gospel), Acts 10:44-47

       (c) about 12 disciples of John the baptizer spoke in tongues after they had believed on the Lord Jesus, had been baptized and Paul had laid his hands on them. Acts 19:1-7 

        (d) The apostle Paul spoke in tongues more than all the Corinthian saints, I Cor.14:18

        (e) The Corinthians had been speaking in tongues in ways that were not guided by the Spirit of God and thus were not edifying. Paul reproved and instructed them that if tongues were spoken in the ekklesia it had to be done in an orderly manner: i.e. one speaker at a time so all could hear and be edified, thus no tongues speaking in the ekklesia unless what was spoken was interpreted, and no more than 2 or 3 tongues speakers.  I Cor.14 

  

(3) They shall take up serpents;  The Lord kept His promise. There is just one recorded instance of this, Paul’s experience on the island of Malta in Acts 28:1-10

        

(4) if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them;  As far as I know there is no scriptural record of a believer being protected from this sort of harm, but there are many accounts in our own time of believers being persecuted and poisoned by their own families and being miraculously preserved by God. I might add that there are also many accounts of believers who were faithful to God who have been killed by poisoning! This is no reflection on their faith or their obedience to God. Hebrews 11 is clear that through faith many have conquered and been victorious over persecution (11:1-35a) but the same chapter is just as clear that others with the very same faith have been vanquished! (11:35b-40)

(5) they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.  There are two recorded instances in scripture after the promise of Mark 16 in which people were healed through the laying on of someone’s hands. In the first instance, Saul (later called Paul) is the recipient of that healing and in the second instance he is the one through whom healing comes to another.

     (a) Ananias lays hands on Saul and he is healed of blindness (Acts 9:17,18)

     (b) Paul laid hands on the father of Publius and he was healed of a fever and a bloody flux (Acts 28:8)

There are many misconceptions which have been derived from the Lord Jesus’ promises in Mark 16. So I would like to point out a couple of things which He  did NOT say…

The Lord Jesus did NOT say “All these signs shall follow them that believe.” 

-There is not one person nor any ekklesia mentioned in the historical accounts of the early church which was marked by  all of these signs! So it is a false assumption to think that the lack of any these signs in any Christian’s life is clear evidence of unbelief or disobedience!  Scripture never teaches that any obedient Christian or any ekklesia, can expect to be marked by all these signs!

-Secondly, the Lord Jesus never promised,  “These signs shall follow ALL them that believe.” Nowhere in scripture do we find any basis for the assumption that every obedient, Spirit-filled believer or ekklesia would be followed by some of these signs and therefore if the signs are lacking the believer or the ekklesia is at fault! But many who have been taught this idea have been brought under false guilt by such erroneous teaching!

What the Lord Jesus did promise, (“These signs shall follow them that believe.”) has been faithfully and entirely fulfilled and nothing is lacking! He has kept His promise for He has been absolutely faithful to His Word!

To judge any believer or any ekklesia who lacks any or all of these signs in their own experience is to make such a judgment entirely apart from any scriptural authority!

The words of the Lord Jesus, Himself, and the writings of the apostles make very clear that such signs were never guaranteed to any or to all believers if they met some standard or requirement of God!

Rather such are given and distributed according to the will of God:

1 Corinthians 12:11)  But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

1 Corinthians 12:18)  But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

1 Corinthians 12:27-30)  Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?  (The obvious answer to all the above questions is “No!”  Not all believers are given these gifts. They are given according to the will of God.)

Lem, Thank you so much for sharing your questions and comments. Your sharing has certainly addressed questions that others have considered but have not asked.  I’ve not addressed all of your comments in this post but this is already too long! I’ll stop for now and continue in the next post.

To all: like Lem, you too are encouraged to comment, question or challenge anything I write here. Lets exhort one another and search for answers in the Word of God!